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I have another question...

Whenever illness looks as though it is to make an appearance in our house, I have taken to putting everyone on a chicken, carrot, cabbage soup broth and veggie/fruit fast (usually for 1 or 2 days as we have growing children). Then the next 2 days we do only meat, veggies and fruit. Absolutely no starch.

Colds seem to last only 3 to 4 days instead of the regular 7 to 10. This has been working for us for 3 years and my son who used to be to the doctor/hopsital every 6 weeks for 'blown up' colds, has not been once in the last 3 years.

Day 5 we add rice (wholegrain of course) or rice and buckwheat in the form of homemade (gf) waffles. Only because the children like to have waffles once in a while and after being so good about a severely restricted diet I do like to reward them. Generally these are topped with honey or peanut butter and honey.

Thoughts? Am I doing more harm than good?

I realize you may not have time to answer but I had to give it a shot.

Kind regards,
KimS

Here's a link to a journal article that hits the nail right on the head:

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/96/1/3

Best regards,
Mike

Hello,

I think this article is appropriate re Art's ideas about evolution and intermittent fasting, etc:

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/96/1/3

Mike

Just to clarify - in regard to IF, are we talking about cutting off food intake around 4-5 hours before sleep and exercising in a fasted state, or are we talking about deliberately going a whole day without any food intake? I've been incorporating the former with great results (more energy, better sleep, lower bodyfat). Thanks.

-Jonathon

Hunter gatherers did live in a kind of abundance in places and times. But there is evidence of individual starvation, not the mass starvation that accompanied crop failure after humans became dependent on agriculture. But starvation and periodic fasting are quite different things. Starvation is chronic, periodic fasting is acute. They bring different accommodations.

I don't think Loren would disagree with that point.

Nonetheless, it is an argument that cannot be settled; it is, as I say, an untestable hypothesis. Loren and Jenny tested a stronger hypothesis of wide spread and systematic starvation, which I do think they showed had little evidence to support it (note this is not the same as a rejection). Of course, there are the large scale human extinctions through starvation accompanying volcanic eruptions, most recently about 70,000 years ago.

But, the final point is that, as Robb says, it is a technology that alters body composition to one more like our ancestors and which upregulates insulin sensitivity and good gene expression.

Jorge-

One might indeed trigger some catabolism but if the session is fairly short perhaps not problem? If a longer sesssion is pn the agenda it may be beneficial to have a small meal, even just 10-20g of protein. Dr. Tom Fahey of CSU, Chico has found this to be quite anabolic compared to some other pre workout feeding strategies.

Keith-

This is completely my take on this and it may differ somewhat from that of Prof. De Vany. From the reading I have done, talking with Prof. Cordain and looking at his paper:

Cordain L, Miller J, Mann N. Scant evidence of periodic starvation among hunter-gatherers. Diabetologia 1999; 42:383-84.

Link:
http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/Diabetologia.pdf

My perspective on this is that if we have nutrition and exercise in accordance with our ancestors we will be strong, lean and fit. We will likely age very well and have a short decline at the end of life. Not bad all things considered.

The intermittent fasting I see as an application of a technology to further enhance these effects of helath and longevity, I do not see it as descriptive of our evolutionary heritage per se.

No proof on any of this! Gust an educated guess and some personal experience.

Robb,

If we get diet and exercise right, evolutionary theory points to our having good physical and mental health. However, I don't think we can assume that longevity will be the result of following the Evolutionary Fitness diet and exercise suggestions. Although there is evidence of hunter-gatherers living into their 60s, there are only isolated examples of them living much beyond that. Perhaps it's just a lack of surviving reliable evidence. Certainly, there were evolutionary advantages to a tribal group which had older members - the "grandmother hypothesis" is the best illustration of these - but I think we are treading new ground here. I may go out like a light at 65!

Robb
Here's my concern ,some of which you have addressed(thanks) and I'm sure will be covered in the book. AM fasted exercise if on the low end can be muscle sparing and great for fat burning but once you crank it up and you have an afterburn, as with the EPOC effect one would get while doing CF or evolutionary exercise and hierarchical sets, would muscle loss not be triggered if your in that fasted state?

Jorge-

Gluconeogenesis certainly could play a factor in this but virtually all of the bodies tissues can and do adapt to ketones as a fuel source. It is important to note that one need not consume an "Atkins" type diet to produce significant ketone bodies. Intense exercise can spike the levels in a dose response fashion and the act of following an IF protocol will also increase ketone bodies, regardless of the type of diet consumed. Add a higher fat diet to the equation the the effect is greatly enhanced.

Ketone bodies improve nitrogen ballance, are neuroprotective and decreasee the need for n-3, n-6 essential fatty acids. Good, good stuff.

One should not necessarilly quit eating all carbohydrate sources however! Part of the plan involves the hormone drives elicited only through intense exercise. Intense exercise requires glycogen stores. The metabolic byproduct of intense exercise, lactate, is very important in some gene signaling cascades that are very favorable for power and longevity.

As to whether or not IF really does extend life...it has in every experiment thus far and with better results than CR.

Not quite conclusive proof, but compelling enough for me to make dinner early and push breakfast back a few hours till after I have exercised.

"I prefer a long overnight fasting period of, say, 15 hours to alternating a day of fasting and a day of eating. I also randomly pick a day when "hunting is lean" (or so I tell myself) to eat sparingly, but I am always active on such a day so my body knows it is to conserve its protein stores and use fat for energy (this is the hGH signal)."

On these days is gluconeogenesis not a factor for the body, because of brain glucose requirements...a lean eating day but active?

I like overnight 15 hours fasting also, as long as its done randomly.

If intermittent fasting turns out to improve longevity without calorie reduction,that would be very exciting, But, I'd probably put dollars against it.

Mr De Vany,
I cannot tell you how much I enjoy your site. You have answered questions that I have had for along time in regards to living a VITAL long life. The IF protocol, coupled with brief infrequent "bursts" of activity, makes so much sense to me.
BTW: took your advice and changed my PWO meal to a balanced protein/fat meal ( ex: mixed vegetables and fish) and am noticing an improvement in my results.

Am very much looking forward to your book.

Sincerely,
Matthew Smith

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