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Intermittent training and muscle mass

May 22, 2005 04:05 PM

Lots of questions. I hope you will not be offended it I cannot get to yours. I don't aspire to be a guru and there are so many complexities and unknowns in most genuine questions that I would be foolish to say I know the answers.

One that is on many minds is how can you build muscle size training intermittently? We have many prime examples of those who can. I put myself in this category, but nothing like Mike Menzter and Dorian Yates. You can get Dorian's book, though I have not tracked it down and don't own it myself. But, if it is size you are after there isn't a better source than this powerful man.

Steroids, you say? I don't know, but he was hugely strong and thick. Not what I want to be. He hurt himself training far beyond what any of us would or should want to do. Note, he did not develop diabetes like the Olympic Scull Champion and hasn't died of fibrillation, like another Olympic Scull champion out on a jog. He retired for reasons I do not know, but what he did was to do intermittent, very heavy duty training (VHT). He also rested a lot and walked for miles around London. I took long walks while in London during his prime with the faint thought I might run into him.

Mike Mentzer trained Dorian for a time, when he was in the US. I just missed him one day at my old gym MetRX. I would have liked to talk to him a bit.

Mike, as most will know, preached Heavy Duty, a book I used in my comeback from a serious knee surgery and my real return to harder training around 1980. But, Mike was following Arthur Jones, who argued for this type of training for many years. In spite of the fact that no textbooks or sports association training recommendations espouse the Jones/Heavy Duty approach, it is supported by a careful reading of the best research (see below for more on this).

Ellington Darden is a proponent of Jones' ideas and has a recent book out on it. But, there is little new in it and it has, what are surely the publisher's outlandish claims on the cover ("Gain 18 Pounds of Muscle in [I forget, I threw the book away] 2 or 3 weeks). This guy could do much better, but publishing today is all about Instant This and Overnight That.

But, Jones and others who taught this style were preceded by, among others, Milo the Greek wrestler who lifted a bull each day from calf to full grown. Just one hugely difficult lift each day (some of this is legend of course). The strong men of the 18th and 19th Centuries were often butchers or beer truck drivers. They did just a few extremely heavy lifts a few times a week. Otherwise, they were just trimming beef or driving horse drawn wagons. Just like Dorian's training in his latter days: a couple of VHT workouts a week and then a lot of rest and easy walking. This is not far from the evolutionary pattern of the hunt as we know it. A long trek, intense, dangerous, and dramatic stalking and killing of the prey, then the extremely hard work of butchering, followed by the heavy carry back to camp. And, then easy days and feasting before it begins again.

The most heavily muscled man I ever met worked as the boss at the Pillsbury Dough Company warehouse. He picked up 100 pound sacks of flour like they were nothing. I got a summer job, even though he was going to hire someone else, by picking a sack up and throwing it over the pile of sacks on the floor (I was an Olympic weight lifter at the time).

What did he do? He unloaded a few freight cars a week, quickly and explosively like a powerful man would do, not like a weak man would do. He didn't take a sack and schlepp it out of the car and into the warehouse. He threw it, like I did (though I could never match his distance; I was only 16-17 at the time).

We could do a railroad car in a few hours. Then, the rest of the week was pretty easy, just filling small orders (still a bit hard) and then the next car to unload quickly. This was pure power work (modern power lifting is not correctly named, it is strength lifting, not power lifting since explosiveness and time are not considerations).

That job helped to set my course as I was very powerful by the time the summer was over. I was playing American Legion Baseball at the time and beginning to attract the attention of scouts because I was hitting the ball over the lights with all the explosive power I gained from tossing 100 pound sacks.

Every young male should have a chance to do this kind of work for a summer. It would change lives and bodies. If I could, I would set up a summer camp like this where kids would do hard, explosive work twice a week and just have easy fun activities on other days. This is how I work out my grandson.

As for Arthur Jones...

You will rarely find Jones name mentioned in scientific publications and most modern advice does not follow his ideas. Does that mean they are not right or others have improved the techniques? No. It says a lot about how academics study things; they like to be able to measure them and intermittent training takes a lot more mathematics (because it does not involve steady state modeling and is harder to do) and it is more difficult science. Once an institution puts advice forth, it is difficult to correct it later. Careers ride on it and these institutions are political organizations with internal conflicts and interests (this is simple economics). What comes out is consensus opinion with a scientific sound, but it may not be the best advice. I have been on National Academy of Science committees and have seen this up close in other matters I won't go into.

Here is the abstract of an article by Dave Smith and Stewart Bruce-Low in a good journal on VHT. Note, I do not disagree with this, in fact I follow some of these principles. But, I don't do slow movements, because I don't want to be slow. The descending phase is slow, but the ascending phase is done quickly. I also note that the article fails to note that eccentric movements preferentially recruit fast twitch fibers, so slow eccentric moves are very effective in developing quick power. Adaptation is highly specific as the body does not have infinite resources, it has to allocate them to the tasks you are doing. Thus, I do more explosive moves because I want to be powerful (force per unit of time) rather than merely strong and thick. Think of throwing the 100 pound sack instead of merely lifting it and you have a closer model to my training ideal.

ABSTRACT STRENGTH TRAINING METHODS AND THE WORK OF ARTHUR JONES. Smith D, Bruce-Low S. JEPonline. 2004;7(6):52-68.

"This paper reviews research evidence relating to the strength training advice offered by Arthur Jones, founder and retired Chairman of Nautilus Sports/Medical Industries and MedX Corporation. Jones advocated that those interested in improving their muscular size, strength, power and/or endurance should perform one set of each exercise to muscular failure (volitional fatigue), train each muscle group no more than once (or, in some cases, twice) per week, perform each exercise in a slow, controlled manner and perform a moderate number of repetitions (for most people, ~8-12). This advice is very different to the strength training guidelines offered by the National Strength and Conditioning Association, the American College of Sports Medicine and most exercise physiology textbooks. However, in contrast to the lack of scientific support for most of the recommendations made by such bodies and in such books, Jones’ training advice is strongly supported by the peer-reviewed scientific literature, a statement that has recently been supported by a review of American College of Sports Medicine resistance training guidelines. Therefore, we strongly recommend Jones’ methods to athletes and coaches, as they are time-efficient and optimally efficacious, and note that, given his considerable contribution to the field of strength training, academic recognition of this contribution is long overdue."

The full article in the journal can be accessed at Strength Training Methods and the Work of Arthur Jones

· Evolutionary Fitness

Comments

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Posted by: outsider [TypeKey Profile Page] at September 10, 2006 12:49 PM

What I'd really like to do is get back some of the strength I had when I was younger, to go with the Judo I'm learning.

I got very, very strong just by swimming, but I've been regaining strength with weights, once or twice a week (down to once a week as I've slowed from a four count to a four second negative). I'm just behind on my shoulders/arms due to a rotator cuff injury I got from doing bag work wrong.

Anyway, I've enjoyed your posts.

Posted by: Stephen M (Ethesis) [TypeKey Profile Page] at September 1, 2006 9:39 PM

Art
Thanks for the abstract I work out currently like Clarence Bass one weight
workout and onr cardio workout per week.
the weight workout very very hard for me and the cardio moderate in intensity.
And I make gains on this.
Nobody believes me though.
I have a vidio tape of Dorrian Yates training it has to be scene to be believed.
I can lend it to you if you like.
just let me know.
sincerely
barry

Posted by: barry bocchieri at May 24, 2005 11:41 AM

I think it's pretty much a given that Dorian Yates utilized an extensive anabolics protocol in his training, and Mentzer did as well.

I do hear tell that he walks around now at a very lean and healthy looking 100kgs or so, but I haven't seen the pictures.

I do know, from extensive anecdotal evidence gathered from internet message boards and one-on-one talks with other lifters, that many have found "HIT" and "Heavy Duty" type training to be effective short term, but causing stagnation after a few months. I also know that powerlifter, olympic lifters, and throwers (both Track & Field and Highland Games) tend to not use HIT style training in their programs.

Posted by: S. Shafley at May 23, 2005 3:13 PM

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