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Mr Fobare you don't know that.
Just because they're perfomers doesn't mean they have a lesser moral conscience; doesn't mean they have one or more of one either.... of course.
Brad Twitt, Bono Mullet, Paul McVegetarian might utter gibberish evoking a personal deity but they have status and they're trying to do what they can.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions but our main problem is that we don't obviously know where any roads end.
So we try.
Hoping for the best
You know, and i include myself of course in this equation, there's something awful and sneeringly self-righteous about saying its an exercise in moral wanking simply as we aren't the folks who MIGHT, not will, benefit in some form or other, however small.
Axially we don't have to contend on a daily basis with what the majority of Africans, Bangledeshi's and other impoverished folk do.
The irony being that as we discuss the finer points of our seemingly unlimited choice vis exercise and nutrition, that also brings myriad problems, the greater percentile of the world sees us as being blessed beyond anything they could ever wish for.
We of course don't know the future but i can assure you from personal experience that if we were in the situ of most Africans we would hope that the well-to-do's,namely us, would at least try and get our politicians and philanthropists to do something.
More; the very thing we have too much of.
The below is from the Sunday Times (UK) and put it this way if i were an African i would rather have her on my side doing what she could versus nothing. One doesn't have to like Microsoft or the Gates themsleves of course.That has nowt at all to do with 'the price of fish'.
Assume you've been helped by others in your life at some juncture ? May not have been as fundamental as keeping you alive vis food and vaccines but the mechanism is the same.
ADV par example is giving this info away.
He might sell a few more books but woopy de doo as he's said more elegantly than I.
Irrespective of his motivations he offers it up and who knows what and how it might effect others lives ?
Same mechanism as before.
Presumably we like this Blog, a helping forum ?
Imagine if we didn't have food; would we want someone to TRY and help even if they were poncing strutting peacock-performers ?
One cannot eat words however profound.
Thats simply vacuous.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2099-1673295,00.html

Sir you don't know that.
Just because they're perfomers doesn't mean they have a lesser moral conscience; doesn't mean they have one or more of one either.... of course.
Brad Twitt, Bono Mullet, Paul McVegetarian might utter gibberish evoking a personal deity but they have status and they're trying to do what they can.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions but our main problem is that we don't obviously know where any roads end.
So we try.
Hoping for the best
You know, and i include myself of course in this equation, there's something awful and sneeringly self-righteous about saying its an exercise in moral wanking simply as we aren't the folks who MIGHT, not will, benefit in some form or other, however small.
Axially we don't have to contend on a daily basis with what the majority of Africans, Bangledeshi's and other impoverished folk do.
The irony being that as we discuss the finer points of our seemingly unlimited choice vis exercise and nutrition, that also brings myriad problems, the greater percentile of the world sees us as being blessed beyond anything they could ever wish for.
We of course don't know the future but i can assure you from personal experience that if we were in the situ of most Africans we would hope that the well-to-do's,namely us, would at least try and get our politicians and philanthropists to do something.
More; the very thing we have too much of.
The below is from the Sunday Times (UK) and put it this way if i were an African i would rather have her on my side doing what she could versus nothing. One doesn't have to like Microsoft or the Gates themsleves of course.That has nowt at all to do with 'the price of fish'.
Assume you've been helped by others in your life at some juncture ? May not have been as fundamental as keeping you alive vis food and vaccines but the mechanism is the same.
ADV par example is giving this info away.
He might sell a few more books but woopy de doo as he's said more elegantly than I.
Irrespective of his motivations he offers it up and who knows what and how it might effect others lives ?
Same mechanism as before.
Presumably we like this Blog, a helping forum ?
Imagine if we didn't have food; would we want someone to TRY and help even if they were poncing strutting peacock-performers ?
One cannot eat words however profound.
Thats simply vacuous.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2099-1673295,00.html

Sir you don't know that.
Just because they're perfomers doesn't mean they have a lesser moral conscience; doesn't mean they have one or more of one either.... of course.
Brad Twitt, Bono Mullet, Paul McVegetarian might utter gibberish evoking a personal deity but they have status and they're trying to do what they can.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions but our main problem is that we don't obviously know where any roads end.
So we try.
Hoping for the best

You know, and i include myself of course in this equation, there's something awful and sneeringly self-righteous about saying its an exercise in moral wanking simply as we aren't the folks who MIGHT, not will, benefit in some form or other, however small.
Axially we don't have to contend on a daily basis with what the majority of Africans, Bangledeshi's and other impoverished folk do.
The irony being that as we discuss the finer points of our seemingly unlimited choice vis exercise and nutrition, that also brings myriad problems, the greater percentile of the world sees us as being blessed beyond anything they could ever wish for.

We of course don't know the future but i can assure you from personal experience that if we were in the situ of most Africans we would hope that the well-to-do's,namely us, would at least try and get our politicians and philanthropists to do something.
More; the very thing we have too much of.

The below is from the Sunday Times (UK) and put it this way if i were an African i would rather have her on my side doing what she could versus nothing. One doesn't have to like Microsoft or the Gates themsleves of course.That has nowt at all to do with 'the price of fish'.
Assume you've been helped by others in your life at some juncture ? May not have been as fundamental as keeping you alive vis food and vaccines but the mechanism is the same.
ADV par example is giving this info away.
He might sell a few more books but woopy de doo as he's said more elegantly than I.
Irrespective of his motivations he offers it up and who knows what and how it might effect others lives ?
Same mechanism as before.
Presumably we like this Blog, a helping forum ?
Imagine if we didn't have food; would we want someone to TRY and help even if they were poncing strutting peacock-performers ?
One cannot eat words however profound.
Thats simply vacuous.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2099-1673295,00.html

Mr Abbe..

ref genes..perhaps immortally-mortal ?

The preciousness part was lovely.

We obviously do care but very selectively.
Maybe its semantics but to let 12-16 million mainly kids die yearly of poverty and malnutritive causes seems to surpass 'pitiful indifference'.
To say that we're not collectively indifferent to their plight is to deny one facet of the mind that manifests in such horrifically indifferent behaviour and the horrors these people live AS.
Lets hope, eh, that the GB this week and todays Live 8 thrust manifest collectively more of the other altruistic behaviours we're capable of.
I'm no fan of her music but Brit R and B singer Miss Dynamite spoke succinctly and very eloquently about 9.40 secs into her set vis our collective behaviour

http://music.aol.com/live_8_concert/live_now

I took Fugate's quoting Dawkins as why we should be so thankful that Dawkins is wrong - about pitiless indifference. It seems obvious to me that this is not a universe of "pitiless indifference", because in fact people *do* care!

Regarding immortality, my genes may live a great deal longer than i do, but they remain mortal.

Anyway, i find more preciousness in life from what it *is* (experience, wonder, love...) rather than what it is not (immortal).

I cannot be callous for there is no such thing, only a selfish gene-induced itellectual construct. "Blindly indifferent?" Though they will muddy the waters to avoid the answer, the Richard Dawkins of the world have left us no alternatives. Robot rebellion indeed.

Mythologist Joseph Campbell advised "to participate joyfully in the sorrows of the world and that includes one's own sorrows, too." Thanks for your IMMORTALITY posting and the comments following.

Mr Fugate.
That stikes me as callous in extremis.
Anybody that would argue the toss about nature being a battlefield and thus denigrate the suffering of most of our fellows is likely one who hasn't seen first hand, in the flesh, people dying of hunger, poverty and its relatedness.
And if you have and you're blindly indifferent..then you inhabit the realm of the dead.

simon, by the way, don't encourage Dr. De Vany to view those pictures you linked to. That old fool is shown drinking battery acid!

Dawkins, as usual, is chasing his tail. In a universe ruled by pitiless indifference, "suffering" is just an useful chimera, created by chance, preserved by necessity for its gene survival value. Gravity, for example, must be understood and respected for it is written into the laws of this universe, but "suffering"? Hardly worth a moment's thought, let alone millennia of hand-wringing. I would also like to know on what basis we would know "exactly" what to expect from a universe of "no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference."

Mr Fugat ..what do you mean by that please ?
Are you suggesting that nature is not a battlefield in the most vicious sense imaginable ?

Mr Fugat ..what do you mean by that please ?
Are you suggesting that nature is not a battlefield in the most vicious sense imaginable ?

Mr Fugate please explain what you mean ?

If Mr. Dawkins were as right as he thinks he is, there would be no concept of "suffering" and we would not be posting these comments.

...yup..or a child every 3 seconds from malnutrition and its related.

This quote sums up how utterly thankful we should be:

"The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference."

-- Richard Dawkins, "God's Utility Function," published in Scientific American (November, 1995), p. 85

............. but a Pol Pot-types discernment might not be the same as ours and in that discrepancy flows the river of blood we in the West seldom see in person aside from abstract telly images.
And anybody who says they don't have aspects of fundamentalism about something within themselves is surely soft in the head.

We must be discerning here. Those who proclaim to know the answers to life's big questions are really fundamentalists, in this case of the Scientism sect, in my humble opinion.

talking of age and immortality.She's got 75 years on me and i don't look that different to her ! 115 super age aye ?

http://news.search.yahoo.com/news/search?ei=UTF-8&p=+Henny+van+Andel-Schipper&c=news_photos

Mr Canuck
'mere flesh and blood' why yee say that ?
Whats mere about it ?
Do you have a micropscope ?
Assume you don't as you wouldn't say such a thing.
I reckon we're as fish in water.
We are and live within nothing but a miraculous state. Not in some Christian gibberish ( water to wine, dead then alive etc ) sense but an actual physical fact and for the most part we , as per fish(ascribing sentiency here to convey our idiocy of course ) don't see what we are and what we live within simply as its our every moment.
Accorindly we generally take it, life and ourselves for granted.

..its very wondrous to see primates when thunder or an eclipse happens.Maybe same mechanism with us and nature
Ye might like the below. A hero of mine. Author of Diary of a Super Tramp about 90 years ago. Says it all in a childishness that seems as ye read it over the years to have a majesty that just continues to blossom enlessly vis its implications for life and of course every moment however defined.

W. H. Davies
Leisure
WHAT is this life if, full of care,
We have no time to stand and stare?—
No time to stand beneath the boughs,
And stare as long as sheep and cows:

No time to see, when woods we pass,
Where squirrels hide their nuts in grass:

No time to see, in broad daylight,
Streams full of stars, like skies at night:

No time to turn at Beauty's glance,
And watch her feet, how they can dance:

No time to wait till her mouth can
Enrich that smile her eyes began?

A poor life this if, full of care,
We have no time to stand and stare

Dear Art
Thank you for your post,you are a very intelligent guy and it is a pleasure to
communicate with you.
As for my self as far as this whole thing goes
consciousness/death ect.I guess I'm a bit of a primitive,I look up at the stars and wonder.
It's the same sort of primitiveness I feel when
I lift weights just me and the iron.
Sincerely
Barry

Prof. De Vany,

You say, "We are information." I agree.

I first stumbled onto this notion years ago when I noticed that my fellow bodybuilders could not gain muscle by eating amino acids alone. If, in fact, this observation is true then it follows that one must consume protein peptides in order to construct muscle. If peptides are necessary to construct muscle tissue then it follows that our body lacks the know-how to construct these peptides. Put another way, our DNA lacks the information to construct certain kinds of its own tissue. By consuming certain peptides the body is, in fact, consuming information.

Living things, it occurred to me, are really information systems. When we kill and eat other living things we are really devouring information in order to restore information we have lost. How did we lose this information? I would speculate that when the body breaks down certain tissues during catabolism it is, in fact, losing the information contained in those tissues.

It follows that, when the body is unable to repair its information system and restore the system's integrity through its own devices, it must go out and gather that information through predation or harvesting. Meat is not merely flesh composed of protein, fat and vital nutrients, it is really a "patch" to repair damaged software, so to speak.

We are much more than mere flesh and blood; we are nothing less than the material expression of our DNA with information being the glue that holds us together. Seen this way, living tissue is not so much formed matter as it is "informed matter."

I believe information theory is the key to unlocking many of life's mysteries not the least of which is species creation.

Is it possible that the universe is one vast information system? Information processing: storing, retrieving and calculating, is the basis of intelligence. Is the universe intelligent? Gravity does not exist until matter is created. Is intelligence like this or does it precede matter? Energy precedes matter. Energy is dynamic; it pulses. Do these pulses constitute the building blocks of information which, in turn, constitute the building blocks of matter? Is matter really just pulsed energy, aka: information, made visible? Is the universe inherently intelligent or does it become intelligent. Do living things exist in order to gather information so as to construct ever larger information systems?

These questions and many others resist my best efforts. Questions are many; answers are few. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

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